Several years ago I went to one of the Hcca "meetings" I happen to mention something positive about the mine----I was ridiculed and felt like I was at a cult group that g-d forbid you say anything opposing what they believe. Do you eat meat---go to a peta rally and say that, see what happens! Look I agree people including me should be a little more civil. The reality is people have lost jobs and the ability to work at good paying jobs because of Hcca. So I definitly have a gripe with hcca-----Let me ask you redneckcharlie when a group that killed geothermal, snodgrass and the mine by being 110 percent opposed to someone who may have a different view how should one react, let someone take the bread and butter off you plate and lets see how you feel.-------was I civil enough

I'm going to regret this but actually read a Kevin White post and I'm going to respond, Idiot that I am. However it will be quick....

KW - "The reality is people have lost jobs and the ability to work at good paying jobs because of Hcca."

Prove it! And don't use your version of a "fact" $40

KW - "Let me ask you redneckcharlie when a group that killed geothermal, snodgrass and the mine...."

Snodgrass is not DEAD and neither is the mine, read the local papers numbnuts. You truly have earned your title of "Village Idiot of Austin, Texas"

$45

I too have been to the HCCA meeting and felt belittled for my opinion. I also have been to a planning commission meeting and been belittled for my opinion. I have also been to a NRA meeting and been belittled for my opinion. Bottom line is they all pissed me off but I came away from those experiences knowing it does no good in a discussion of issues to fight fire with fire. Belittling and bullying do very little but cause additional problems and ill will.I prefer to state my opinion, let others state their opinion and get a damn good discussion out of it. Learn why and how from all sides of the issue. Then formulate a better informed opinion on the subject matter. Probably won't change your opinion but might give a little insight into why the other does what they do.

Oh and yourvillageidiot, your as much a part of the problem as the other radical side....

Sorry your intellectual taste buds aren't stimulated by MGV any longer.

That is what happens when you mix all different ages and educational backgrounds into one room.

Eventually the party is going to get bigger on one side of the room than on the other side.

When that happens people on the other side get bent and leave the room.

I sure as heck wouldn't stay in a room where everyone, each has a 1000 word dissertation as to "why rain is wet".

FWIW It stagnated without the help of the "Narrow minded, paranoid, delusional, radical" crowd.

"I prefer to state my opinion, let others state their opinion and get a damn good discussion out of it. Learn why and how from all sides of the issue. Then formulate a better informed opinion on the subject matter. Probably won't change your opinion but might give a little insight into why the other does what they do."

That is what happens in the real world, this is not the real world this is an online forum. people say and do things that in the real world they may or may not do.(how are any of us to know?) I have learned to take it all in "with a grain of salt" and go from there.

If you want stimulating conversation this or any other forum for that matter is not the place for it.

RN Charlie I agree with all of your points. Except one...

I am in no way part of the problem, I am a result of the problem. The problem o belittling and name calling existed before I jumped in and when the problem persisted I reacted in the standards established on this site. Which are almost none....

Opie you truly have blinders on. The whole reason this site is no longer a place for "stimulating conversation" is because of absolute a-holes and cowards like YOU! Noone else bothers with this site anymore because of YOU and your Merry Band of Village Idiots like Ord, KW, and Itty. Congrats on making Mygunnisonvalley.com your forum for chatting with each other.

Plop...plop....fizz...fizzzz.....

.........oh, what a relief it is!

That was for you, YVI!

Just for the record and just out of curiousity I went back several years of posts-----it seems there are more post now and more hits now then previous--the tone of the posts may have changed but more people are reading them--check for yourself.----the numbers don`t lie. Sorry YVI you speak for the small radical very vocal very tiny minority--if you feel happy about giving your dollars to a radical cause that has caused your neighbors a financial hardship go ahead--you have to live with yourself. Can`t you donate to a more worthwhile cause.

wipe.
Wipe.

splash.

Found several groups Village that are similar to HIGH COUNTRY CITIZENS ALLIANCE that you may want to donate your money to. Acorn, socialist workers unite, communist party, save the fruit flies, save Tibet, people against meat eaters. Pick your cause Village

YVI said "Opie you truly have blinders on. The whole reason this site is no longer a place for "stimulating conversation" is because of absolute a-holes and cowards like YOU!"

another fine example of a "open minded,trusting,rational,moderate" thinker

Yup, we need more of these type around.

KW said: "Just for the record and just out of curiousity I went back several years of posts-----it seems there are more post now and more hits now then previous"

Kevin don't waste your time, you will confuse the village "brain" with logic and facts

There are radicals on both sides if this isn't proof I don't know what is. the village "brain" must be right he's a democrat.

Interesting timing....about a month and a half before elections. And yes, those hits keeping going up.......people are reading this stuff....could be a real threat to someone........perhaps those that complain the loudest. I'm fairly sure Kevin has the biggest following on this site......at least he is the most read. Oh, for sure, not all agree....but they read.....don't they.

So redneckcharlie, did you think the LUR and stiffer requirements to gain building permits would just go un noticed? How about those impact fees? I'm fairly sure Western State college students could be fooled, the citizens of Gunnison, CB for sure......they don't ever plan to buy a building permit in the County....do they? Did you like your property evaluation doubling while we are in a recession and property values are going down. How about those auto registration fees doubling.

You Dems are doing a great job.......thanks.

But, heck......thanks for putting off those extra impact fees until times get better. I think this is a first......someone on the BOCC noticed the little people. There is hope. Suppose they will ever realize that construction workers live in this county......na......that's too big a leap.

Now......it's your job to step in and tell me how wrong I am. Please show me illustrations.

redneckcharlie, I was wondering how long it would take before the other end of the stick would notice our end.

Ever give some thought as to why this site is filling up with people that think our County Government and local governments are obsessed with no growth, protection of everything and development of nothing? Give it some thought and get back to us.

Hate to burst any bubbles but one thing to consider as you pat yourself on the back for the number of hits is everytime you look at you own posts it logs another hit. So therefore if Kevin or Itty look at their own post 25 times a day for three weeks it gets 1050 hits just from those two. These are not unique user hits.

But anyway, to answer Itty's questions. I agree the impact fees are a questionable way to approach the affordable housing problem, and yes Itty there is an affordable housing problem in this Valley. And I have been in the construction trade in this Valley so I am speaking from experience. I have read and feel like I am well versed in the LUR and the process and I can say pretty comfortably that there has been no change in the LUR over the last three years that has anything to do with building permits. Perhaps you know something I don't? Fact there have been about 5 changes in the LUR in the last three years period, none having to do with building permits. In another post we can go over the changes if you would like.

Charlie, let's be clear. We have a problem affording housing in this valley. There are not many jobs that pay a living wage to allow folks to purchase the housing that is available at the lower end of the market, or through existing govt programs. Just ask Larkspur, CBMR, Paradise Park...

That is very different than an "Affordable Housing" problem.
Heck - you can't even give away the affordable housing inventory that is out there right now!

...but the taxes go on and on and on...

http://www.crestedbuttenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1849&Itemid=40

Pretty much says it all about the NIMBY"S i.e. HCCA. Look who's whining about it. Me? no. How insulting what Glo Cunningham said. Take a look at the foreclosures in that end and tell me things are going well.

Again sorry you feel left out

we will try to keep this side of the room under control

but I can't guarantee it ;-)

Enjoy..

.......CB Nwz, Reman

* Crested Butte Planning Commissioner Dan Escalante might want a do-over. He stated at the Foothills public hearing Monday that he had been listening to a lot of pro-annexation people on the street and was uncomfortable closing the public hearing because he felt that voice needed to be heard. Now, I don’t agree with the quasi-judicial way the town set up the annexation process. It’s too restrictive for legislators who, in my opinion, should solicit public comment. But it’s been stated close to a kazillion times by the town attorney that the board members cannot talk, listen, discuss and certainly not base any decision on so-called “’ex-parte communication” from anyone outside of official annexation meetings. Escalante sure seems to have gone off the ex-parte reservation and that might just take him out of the final decision. I don’t know for sure, but I bet an Apple Z is in order.

Ord makes a good point. It is a two edged sword. The best approach is to create better paying jobs and industry as well as ensuring there is entry level housing. But don't kid yourself into thinking that the "affordable housing" in Buckhorn is not selling because people don't need it. It is becasue it is $500,000+ affordable housing. If there was something up there in the $175-250,000 range I would think it would not be sitting empty. Just a guess. and also I would have to think that even with an improvement of wages and jobs there will always be a service industry wage catagory in this Valey that is prominent in numbers and will need some form of entry level housing.

PS Loved the Apple Z editorial....

Just look at the MLS. There are tons, tons of 2-3br condos available in Mt.CB, CB South, and some in CB for 175-250k. Some have been on the market for years - good condition, priced right. They overlap the "affordable housing" priced projects.

Any buysers? Local salaries to support them?

Nope. Nada. Locals are gone; shaken out.

Good housing rotting on the vine, while our govts tax us more to build housing that isn't needed.

WE NEED JOBS, DIVIRSIFICATION (SP?)!

Is it any surprise that CB wants to shut the door on the Foothills Annexation? I Think it's funny that the bone heads in CB just want to leave the town dump as is. If perhaps the CB news would actually do it's job and READ the report about the dump they might just change their tune.

Hey Jim Schmidt you live in the Poverty Gulch affordable housing, perhaps you should read the report. You will find that within 150 feet of YOUR house (house not property line on CB property) there is lead way higher than EPA standard leaching into the ground. Now if you had any real concern for your family you might just demand that the dump get cleaned up ASAP.

Perhaps CB needs to get off the junk and wake up. The dump needs to be cleaned up, it's up to the town, it's their responsibility, they will end up paying for it's removal.

Nobody can afford to move a business into this valley, no matter the cost or availability of housing. We are stuck with what is left

The mine will employ a couple of hundred and they have more than enough applications on file already to fill those.

Until Banks start loaning money again, the valley is going to continue to shed jobs. With that comes more housing either available on the market or threw foreclosure.

Ironically Schmidt says don't do the dump because of the mess it will create while Cunningham says people can't live on top of a dump. FUNNY STUFF!!!!

You know who will clean this up? The Town of Crested Butte. It was "their" mess they handed to the Trampes in the 80's after dumping there since the 1890's.

I have to question anything surrounding the water quality suffering from this. What has the monitoring for the last 50 years been on the site? Or what are the results from well tests from downstream user's? Nothing was reported other than background noise. What would Glazer say? NOTHING---

HCCA and Mellissa Belz and others in the valley don't want to see any development at all. People need to stop listening to them and think for themselves. Instead of giving $5 to HCCA it may be a better use of your money to support a local business.

http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2009/09/18/breaking_news/doc4ab2a9a802609848731956.txt

http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2009/09/18/news/doc4ab309e28df8d573248911.txt

You know redneckcharlie, posting on this site hasn't always been easy for any of us, and while some have drifted off, every once in awhile they come back. But, while it helps to have a thick skin and follow the doctors orders (never take any of this personally) I don't see why anyone that is willing to be "sort of civil" can't generate a conversation. Of coarse if it is controversial, watch out.

Now, I would agree the weather and recipes don't get much of a buzz going. And I've come to the conclusion like Opie, that this whole thing is recreational.

You can draw your own conclusions, I guess you already have, but you may have to accept that, other people live in Gunnison County, besides those that agree with you and your friends.

The point may well be..........if you have something to say.......stick with it until you get it said. If you just want someone to agree with you......I'll bet you have friends that are faithful to your cause.

Personally I feel it is sort of in bad taste to point out a group of people, and condemn their activities based upon their mutual agreement on issues. Give us some time and perhaps we will form an organization like HCCA, collect money and buy politicians, than you can freely pick on us all you want. It's sort of the way the world goes, We of the same opinion, have to stick together, you call it a mutual admiration society. We refer to it as supporting what we believe in.

My advice to you is, get organized with your support group, and counter what you feel is a bad opinion. The way to do that is precisely what the rest of us have done........keep at it until some sort of group concensis gets going. If your friends think this is all BS than all I can say is "good luck". After watching election results for the past 4 elections, I'd say you have us outnumbered 10-1.......it shouldn't be to hard to out talk us. If your platform is solid?

So....if your friends are weak, they will get bashed......the world isn't kind to anyone......it's the test. Some will weather out the storm, others will never go out in the boat again. If your friends fear us, than they need to conquer their fears, and this site is fairly painless......no one knows who the heck you are, how painless can we make it? This is boot camp......the real war is still out there and they shoot real bullets.

From your perspective this situation will only get worse.......from mine, it can only get better. You see......you have met the opposition....we aren't supposed to agree. If we agree......MGV.com returns to being a social events calendar.

I have a question......why won't the HCCA people put up someone to discuss issues on this site? We know they aren't afraid to talk to us. If they are afraid......what kind of pansy a$$ group would that be.

So redneck if you keep singling us out and painting swastika's on us I will lecture some more.

RedneckCaharlie wrote:

It’s not a battle. There are no winners and losers. It’s just a place to share diverse opinions and have good, healthy discussion.

Rnc. you live in a fantasy world where all things are resolved over a beer and another beer. It clearly doesn't work that way......the good old USA has been burying soldiers everyday of my life.......why? because talk doesn't work. If local regulation only did GOOD we wouldn't be having this discussion. Truth is,you like it and I don't. I see it as killing our economy, and you see it as saving your life style. The HCCA people see it as saving the environment. I see it as having absolutely nothing to do with the environment. They see destroying private property rights as a necessity to saving the world, I see it as destroying everything the good old USA ever stood for. You call me and others fools, paranoid, etc. and I can't help but think you are blind and uneducated about anything American.

See why this takes on the semblance of a WAR. Actually many wars have been fought over a lot less.

Yes, there are those that think HCCA and their propaganda machine and buying commissioners, is the problem. With votes....not money.

Others, like me feel that the North end has problems that will never be solved by any amount of regulation, socialism, or anything else. The"Anti" flavor will kill the place......no one will ever agree on what brand of social engineering will work this week. The MINE will loom over CB forever.....as will it's resistance to change and progress. Fear of everything rules, with a glimmer of hope when HCCA gets another BOCC seat.

Now if you could just keep my end of the valley out of this.......I'd give up this whole mess and sit back and watch. I definitely think the South end inherits way too much crap from the North.

Just one mans opinion. .

So redneckcharlie, tell us a happy story......with a great ending.

Dang.....been waiting for a reply for 2 weeks.........I'm thinking once a discussion turns into something besides the weather, it's too heavy for redneckcharlie. Want to talk about why the gun stocks are now a good buy? We have the best military on the planet.........so why are Americans buying guns like tomorrow will be a war?

Ya, know I have taken a break from posting here just to see what might shake from the tree. I check in once or twice a day if time permits. In two weeks time there was one recipe posted (which by the way was awesome!)

An one very polite gentleman that REMINDED US ABOUT THE HIGH SCHOOLS HOMECOMING GAME.

Which turned out to be a good watch.

And JN updated his (what now seams to be) Bi-weekly blog.

Soooooooooooo

Anyone Whack anything lately?

Big game rifle hunting season just started so far the klan is 0-8 with 2 more third season tags to go and one very fluffy coyote called and being stretched as I type.