Cool! Those are the dirt jumps that we built way back when to ride our dirt bikes over. Oh wait....

They've been "saved". LOL.

So much for "Freeriding".

Built right over the top of the MC track. Hartmans used to be a place where "everyone" could ride and enjoy the peoples land. Now much of it has been condemned designated non motorized and can only be enjoyed by those liked minded individuals that choose to force their wants onto others

Just as well keeps them from doing the same of Taylor park at least for now

I'll have to bring down my old CR500 and do some warm up laps.

Spent many many an afternoon running around that meadow before the mountin'bike-nazi's got a the idea of blocking everyone out. We used a little bobcat to make most of the jumps they've built over.

9:00am right? Cool. See ya there.
Now was it 32:1 premix, or....

Thanks guys! Love ya.

wow, you guys are bitter.
but for the record, "bike Nazis" had nada to do with removing the MC track. that was a city/county decision based on uproar from the neighbors, not bikers. there's still plenty of moto riding opportunity at Hartmans (as more than a few mountain bikers who also ride moto can attest). The only area designated non-moto is on the front, the land managed by the city/county. and there's a kick A moto track off McCabe's now too that I'm guessing wasn't around back when two-strokin was how it was dun and you guys were actually riding your bikes. it'd be great to see you out there Sunday, ord and opie, but you'd have to leave the safety of the cyber world. maybe even, gulp, talk to people.

HAHA! Laughing. Willy, your youthful fact-free reporting always amuses me. It was a guy three doors down who lent us the bobcat to build the original MC Track that your new "non-profit" friends just built right over! Only one homeowner who really whined much, didn't get anywhere, then moved a few years later for an un-related reason. There were only a few houses out there.

The McCabe's track is a joke, more $$$ into fences than the surface.... everyone goes to Delta or Salida where the tracks are actually maintained.

The entire front or Hartmans was dirtbike and jeep mecca long before they tied a diaper on you and sat you on a knobby tired 3 speed bicycle. I bet you can't even bust open a keg out back there on a cool Friday night, something about re-vegetation. LOL! Hundreds of college kids are missing out, probably playing Nintendo now....

Travel management only became an issue once the men in tights showed up.

Here slick Willy, it's a word jumble for ya:

o b r i d t o t r e d r o

Classicly conflicted MtnBiker:
Source: Google

Reviewed by: Rick , from Folsom, Ca

Summary:
We rode Hartman Rocks for 3 days. Plan was for only 1 day. On the last day, we did the "rage in the sage" race loop. My wife and I both thought it was great. The guys in the bike shop will point you to other trails. The other "secret" trails are awesome and more technical. Everything is fun. This place totally kicks ass. I definitely liked Hartman Rocks better than Crested Butte. This place is mountain biking heaven. If I had a choice for a home site, this would be it. I would be a way better biker if I could ride this place every day. It has everything. The only bummer is that there are to many people on motorcycles. Packs of them. It would be better if they weren't around.....but I think if I lived here, I'd have a motorcycle and ride this place too....so it's hard for me to really complain.

The local God of MtnBiking states it well: MtnBikes caused the user conflicts. Dave seems to believe the world revolves around him and his "sport". Source = Google

Reposted:

The local God of MtnBiking states it well: MtnBikes caused the user conflicts. Source = Google

Also pertinent was the population of an area and the preexistence of trails and the users of these trails prior to mountain biking, primarily walkers and equestrians. We had few (any?) user conflicts around Gunnison because there were no trails before mountain biking other than a couple of cow paths that had been ridden in by motorcycles. As the article mentions, the public lands close to Gunnison were a neglected dumping ground, the domain of range cattle, kids partying, 4×4’s and a handful of motorcyclists.

--Dave Wiens

Bitter, heil yes!!!

when was the last time you had of a group of wrist twisters wanting to close historically used mtn bike trails to mtn bikers???

The only conflict I have ever had was with a pedal jokey. Never had another MC rider take a swing at me while patiently waiting for him to come up the trail NEVER!!

We all pay for the improvement and maintenance of those trails with our taxes. The motorized user is the one footing the majority of the bill and is the first (ussually only) one to get the boot.

Opie & Ord,

Being a mtn biker and also being here when motos use to rule the base area, I think you blame the wrong group. It was the homeowners that failed to realize that there was a moto track in their back yard, so they came up with a master plan that took you out of the equation. The NIMBY's were organized and in my opinion ruined the front side of Hartmans. Every trail that was "fun" has been closed. I know there is a group trying to get some fun back into the front side, but with the Hartman Rocks planning commission voting members being a invite only county/city group mostly run by homeowners, the chances aren't the best.

Pretty amazing that a public commission can be invite only, and no term limits, perhaps you can call Ampietro and Crosby to get invited...

Have you guys ever showed up for a trail day? You would notice that the 3 BML workers are dwarfed by the the masses of volunteers that do the majority of the work. Some pay more than others...

I place blame where it is so deserved

First on the moto riders, had they come together and fought tooth and nail as do mnt bikers they may have won the fight. Being seal club by the group that stands to gain from their loss doesn’t help much either.

Mnt Bikers may not have been the soul cause of the base area closure but they sure as heck didn’t say anything to the contrary. You should take a look at what Dave, and “his” trails committee have said to the FS about the summer travel management plan. You will see much of the same, good for us to bad for them. They currently support motorized restrictions on the following trails 531,480,413,609a,424 and the list goes on. They will not be impacted in a negative way instead they are awarded miles & miles of non-motorized single track. Which is what they want?

True they have lost trail to wilderness (who hasn’t) overall the percentages of motorized use restriction and bike restriction are astronomically disproportionate. Moto’s not only pay registration fees but also tax on the fuel. Tax which is then given to the Colorado trails committee and used to maintain trails and build new ones. Most of which are open for all users until there is a “conflict”. I have never seen a motorized user take a swing at a non motorized user because he/she didn’t bend over backwards to be courteous. Unfortunately I can’t say the same for the opposite

So sorry if you haven’t seen me at a trail day, I have given the most only to have it taken away and give to another for their enjoyment. Soon I will say the heck with it and ride when & where I want to ride consequences be damned seems to work for them. Haven’t been in a wilderness area yet that didn’t have at least one set of pedal bike tracks through it

Trail Day? Does having created many of the jumps that you're now building over not count? LOL!

I've attended trail days, just to see the holier-than-thou pedal-power crowd take those trails away years later.

It doesn't take much to see the negative environmental impacts of 300 mountain bikes traveling through an area on a spring weekend. They're not exactly the daisy pickers they pretend to be when debating in council chambers.

Maybe Opie and I should start a big-shoe hiking club and kick all of those damn bikers off of our trails! Have you ever seen the mess they leave? Power-bar wrappers, old innertubes, plastic parts, Power-aid bottles.... and those gay-ass man-tights! UGh.

They need to be banned!

We'll build Frisbee Golf courses where they used to ride their $6000.00 unobtanium bikes.

Grrr.

Sad day when the "Land of many uses" becomes the land of special uses.......then eventually the land of no uses. It will go away one day and everyone will wonder why, especially those of us that sit in the middle of government land with nothing to do. I think we are saving it for the Chinaese. I remember when children resolved most of these issues in the sand box before they turned six. The fight for public lands is a loosing battle for the West, someone needs to see the bigger picture.

VOLUNTEERS NEEDED! High Country Citizens Alliance is asking for citizens to help with setting up roadblocks. Gwen and Dan Morse are asking for help with checking all bikes to make sure NO Molybdenum is found in bikes. All bikes with moly will be turned back or destroyed. No bikes well be allowed to weigh over 20lbs, over the concern for the enviornmental FOOTPRINT. Lawyers and police will be standing by. Local Politicans applaud the efforts of hcca and if spotted Kevin White will be arrested on site.

This may be the most pathetic dialogue I have heard in some time. Are you folks really having a fit about a bunch of piles of dirt at Hartman's? Is there not something more stimulating or pertinant we could be talking about?

redneckcharlie, you're over-simplifying a simple topic. While amusing, the point here is land use, and how PUBLIC assets are managed. If you can't read that out of this discussion, I'll have to withhold my for for you.

On the larger topic, I live between two Wilderness Areas. They're riddled with camping spots and nice jeep roads that have somehow been "preserved" much like this litle patch of ground that I helped build jumps in years ago. Land Use = removing rights from users on a select basis.

30min, gotta go get the CR500 loaded.

;-)

Ok, so if we accept the premise that the MC Track was not commandeered by mountain bikers, and that it was done away with and "re-vegitated" through the protests of the new homeowners in the area primarily over the extreme noise levels of older 2 Stroke bikes (i.e. My CR500!)...

Mountain bikers should support reopening access to it now, since all of the MX bikes are these ultra-quite, EPA rated, sub-82db vehicles in an effort to prove that they are not interested in a "taking" of public resources!

Think of all of the maintenance help you'll get if the CBTRA and others throw down on a collaborative effort! Hell, I'll bust out the old Bobcat and build some new jumps for everyone!

Come on Mtn-bikers, FreeRiders, PedalPoopers help us petition Dan & Marlene so we can get that parcel opened back up to use with our new quiet machines along side you!

LOL!

redneckcharlie it starts with piles of dirt and as the winds of "change blow" it turns out to be the entire area.

All one has to do is sight the need a to "preserve", "protect", "re-vegetate" or worse claim they say a sage chicken and the area continues to get smaller and smaller and as it gets smaller they start kicking users off.

itty bitty wrote: The "Land of many uses" becomes the land of special uses.......then eventually the land of no uses.

So true, So true

Western communities that rely on the Federal landscape for survival should be collectively putting their game plan together to protect their interest. I don't see this happening nor do I see any community cohesiveness that will make it happen.
I think the loosely organized communities of the West will be rolled over by better organized groups, while our leadership is out to lunch.
It's not just the perfect "no growth" plan it's the perfect plan to dry up the West and create another mass exodus, dropping the gold standard did the same 100 years ago.
Ask yourself.......how many years will they clean boat hulls at Blue Mesa before they just shut down all boating?
Trails and roads are disappearing to the "road less" plan. Public access to federal land that crosses private land is going to be closed by the private land owner who is being encouraged by the USFS to do so.
Environmental groups are opposing any commercial development of Federal lands (Snodgrass) ect. Pipe lines, mines, you name it.
The only way to satisfy these groups is CLOSE down federal lands to everything.
Endangered species now are everywhere and more will develop, justifying more closures and limited land use.
The Feds can not control their lands, it's too big so closure is the only real solution.
Our new head of the Dept. of Interior will probably protect ranchers grazing rights........but not yours.
It's all about environmental protection, home land security issues, and the shrinking federal budget. The feds are getting out of the recreation business, closing camp grounds and roads and the next step is limited use, then no use.
It's coming, and it's surprising how well supported it is in our own community.
Local government is pushing for more and more control of Federal lands with the sole purpose of restricting it's use and development. You complete the dots.

Oh please. Front side of Hartmans was an absolute disaster 15 years ago. Junked cars, refridgerators, Tv's, cans and bottles strewn out everywhere from college parties (and yes I did attend them), trails cutting staight up drainages which in turn created huge wash outs. Yeah it was multi use but so is the county dump. Seems like a few folks got together and cleaned it up, created some logical trail systems and a nice base area and now it is something the community can be proud of. You all tout the need for economic development well people travel from all over the country to compete in the mountain bike and trail running competitions that are being held at Hartmans. The growler and sage burner races brought over 350 competitors to the valley a couple of weeks ago. Figure that number to easily double when you figure their wives, husbands or families coming with them and that seems like a pretty good economic impact to the community. If you don;t like the dirt piles over on McCabes then get organized and make them better. Seems like 95% of the Hartmans area is still as multi use as ever. My guess is most dirt bikers would rather have some piles of dirt in a place where no one can bother them and they can develop them into something that works for their sport. Then hold some competitions to bring competitors into town and quit the whining.
And for the record I don't ride dirt bikes or mountain bikes. Both seem like silly sports to me. But if it floats you boat then do it. I don't have a problem with it.

The doer’s do and the whiners whine.
Find a whiner who contributes something other than whining and you have a neighbor or citizen.
Congrats ! to Dave the crew and participants for a great Growler.
Next year maybe the whiners should leave town for the weekend.

Well, the Peanut Gallery arrives..

...with not much to offer, other than insults.

We have a discussion over land use - specifically over taking away motorize access from taxpayers, make a few valid arguments someone disagrees and you're a "whiner"? WTF?

The truth is that 300 mountain bikers have a hell of lot more impact than a few bikes or quads or whatever. There are more trails cutting up the backcountry now that bicycles are all the rage. "Muscle Power", and "Mechanized" are just terms designed to disguise the fact that they have REAL impacts to the areas they travel in.

Nobody is leaving town for a bunch of "Men in Tights!"

ord

ord: we're confusing them with facts and logic. the argument ends real quick when you start to doing that. Then starts the mud flipping and insults.

It won't do any good they are blinded by the euphoria

LoL!!!!

You have got to be f'ing kidding me?!?!

Opie Itty and Ord are going to call other peoples comments factless? ROFLMFAO! At best, most of what you offer are conjecture, a rare fact thrown in for fun, and the rest is personal attacks and mudslinging. You three idiots lead the charge in that last category.

Keep having conversations amongst yourselves because no one else wants to.

Peanut Gallery Lives! Yeeha!

Excellent points from Caning and BillyBob...

....oh wait, they didn't make any.

Friday Rocks.

Just to clarify a few things here...As a resident of the Hartman Rocks area for almost 20 years, I will attest to the changes (for the good) that have taken place at the base area. The base area is clean, reasonably developed and well cared for, thanks to a partnership between govt. and private persons from most, if not all user groups. These volunteers have done a stellar job of making Hartmans a great resounce to Gunnison.

The City and County have been responsive neighbors and those of us that live within a 1/2 mile of the base can now sit in our back yard without listening to the constant buzz of machines. Those machines can easily access some great riding on BLM land by going over the top of the hill.

There's room for everyone back there, but the base area is not appropriate for regular motorized use...I say this because when we moved into our house 20 years ago the noise was not bad; over the next five years it got to the point where we couldn't enjoy our yard because of the noise from the base area...That's why residents from Hartman Rocks road, Panoview Park and Gold Basin Meadows (not one person) voiced our opinion for change to local govt.

Well, Billybob.... this page has 580 views...I'm fairly sure most of those that tuned in were not doing so to hear what you had to say. But, that could change......you could become a regular and share your opinion and make a name for yourself much as the rest of us have. Fact,fiction or fantasy matters less.......just give us your take on the "state of Gunnsion County".

Harman Rocks......what can I say....Maybe that you great folks that shut down the motor bikers could have gone the distance, and helped relocate this. Yes, No? Instead of creating long lasting hard feelings that will last forever. Close a door......open another one.